Call for details with your specific combination. Post I have seen a dyno test where an engine using identical duration and lift made more peak power with a 112 LSA than a 110 LSA. 4-Link72, do you run racing gas or pump with 10.5:1 CR? Builds More High-RPM Power Increase Piston-Intake Valve Clearance Decrease Piston-Exhaust Valve Clearance EFFECTS OF CHANGING LOBE SEPERATION ANGLE (LSA) Tighten (smaller LSA number) Moves Torque to Lower RPM Increases Maximum Torque Narrow Power band Builds Higher Cylinder Pressure Increase Chance of Engine Knock Increase Cranking Compression Maybe even 114. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Since we were only changing the lobe separation angle, we had to make sure every variable (air/fuel, timing, water, air, and oil temps) was identical during testing. Re: Lobe separations on 383-406 cids.104-106-108-110. That is no accident. It affects the amount of valve overlap; that is the brief period of time when both the intake and exhaust valves are open. ditto with the above. Before getting to the cam profiles, we had to make sure we had a reasonable test engine. LS Exhaust Manifold Bolt Torque (Everything You Need To Know), Holley Power Valve Sizes: Everything There is to Know. The introduction of Lunati'snew Bootleggerhydraulic series - with its wicked 108-degree lobe-separation angle, fast opening profile and plenty of area under the lift curve - will serve only to fuel the flames on this heated bench-racing topic. The lumpy-idling 101 LSA cam churned out an average of 484.0 hp at 6,100 rpm with 493.9 lb-ft of torque at 4,400 rpm. Do you know what the best lobe separation angle for your car engine is? Brul slid the 113-LSA cam, the widest of the test, into the engine's heart and set about putting all the pieces back in place. by farmer Mon May 12, 2003 3:14 pm, Post My duration will be about 230 degrees. This is why the LS series, and many other modern engines, can make great power on top and bottom with wide LSA camshafts and why a plethora of factory cylinder heads are flowing near (or above) 300 cfm. As a result of this fall, the idle of the engine has to face suffering quite often. However it is at the expense of a small amount of bottom end power and idle quality, due to the increased overlap. This is very critical for manifold vacuum, throttle response, emissions, and gas mileage. The other thing is that you need to tune your ignition advance to maximize your performance. = Tight Below 104 Deg. Is it a hydraulic roller as well? by bigjoe1 Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:48 pm, Post The 114o lobe will add a lot more vacuum at idle. Idle vacuum showed a considerable spike to 14.7 in-Hg, likely the difference between being able to run power brakes and a mandatory leg workout. Check out the Comp Cams catalog, even the biggest hydraulic rollers use 110. Well, I saw that Erson makes some nice hydraulic rollers with 108 LSAs, and I know that tighter LSAs have more midrange, so I thought they might be worth a try. If the cylinder heads are the lungs of an engine, the camshaft is the brain. If you're an OEM automaker looking for a steady idle, good fuel economy, and passing tailpipe emissions, this is the cam of choice. Generally speaking, decreasing the lobe centerline angle increases overlap. 292S-112: 292/292 - 240/240 - .495/.495 - 112* - 3400-7200. Around 70 percent of muscle-car performance cams fall into this range. JavaScript is disabled. too much for the street? That means your engine can produce more power with a minimum amount of fuel combustion. The other thing is that you can make more power with a smaller aftermarket cam. Because the lobes are closer together on the 101 LSA cam, the intake closing point is advanced (closes earlier) and the piston has more time to build compressionexactly what the gauge showed. The valve covers, valvetrain, intake manifold, harmonic balancer, front cover, timing set, and cam were yanked. A cam 112LSA with 4 degrees advance puts the intake centerline at 108 degrees. However, a cam with 108 will only pull 12-16", which is not enough for power assisted accessories. While a cam with a 108 lobe center will idle rougher. At a lower LSA, the engine reaches the peak of the torque earlier than the standard time but generates a lower RPM.On the contrary, at a higher LSA, the engine reaches the peak torque at a higher resistance level and generates a bulk number of RPM. A forum community dedicated to Ford performance owners and enthusiasts. The only reason the advance or retard a camshaft profile is to get the timing events where they need to be. ( 2 ) Estimated Ship Date: Feb 23, 2023 (if ordered today) Drop Ship. Thanks. However, in application, there is a lot more to consider. You cannot look at just the LCA without looking at other specs too. Due to the tightness and frequent overlapping of the intake and exhaust valves, the engine cant generate the high RPM as it is supposed to. All rights reserved. Knife edged & profiled 4MA Cleveland crank weighing 50lbs. When choosing a cam, power gains shouldn't be the only consideration. by Mr. P. Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:36 pm, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited, General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track. 108 Lobe Separation These are my motors specs 1979 - 347 Stroker 10:1 Compression Holley 670 Street Avenger or a Holley 650 (I have both) Roush 200 Cylinder Heads (minor head work) 1.6 Roller Rockers Shorty BBK Headers 373 Rear End 5 Speed Transmission Cross Gap Intake (Power Band 1500-6500) FlowMaster Dual Exhaust (of course no Cats) MSD 6Al I though my car would have a nice rough idle with the solid cam with a tight LSA I put in my car, its go a slight lope to it, but it pulls hard. No, it is not even close to the ultimate performance grind most would have picked. In a blower motor when the valve timing events are where they need to be the lobe sep will usually wind up in the 114-115 range on most Combos. My engine shop builds all kinds of hot rod motors, and they told me that because I am running a 4 speed manual, I will better be able to take advantage of the 108 LSA. 106 LSA: The overlapping is higher as 106 LSA is comparatively tighter LSA than 110 LSA. Let's just talk lobe sep angle. THis is a real generalization, but the weaker your heads, the more you will like the smaller centers ( 106-108) the better the heads, and the higher the compression, the more it will like the wider centers ( 112-114)everything else falls somewhere in the middle( 108-110) Once you get close with the cam centerlines, it wont make much differance if you change it up or down by 2 degrees. The idle quality was better with the 112-degree LSA but not as good as the wider 120-degree cam.The ultra-wide 120-degree LSA lost low-speed power and never recovered, but know that this wide LSA is often beneficial on positive displacement, supercharged applications. Meaning the lower lobe seperation will have a very quick and fast powerband (Snappy!) Your email address will not be published. Engine builders Chuck Lawrence, left, and Doug Patton. 106 LSA: There is a scale of standard cranking compression of the engine. The 110 is probably a better choice for a performance street engine. 110 LSA: You will find the complete opposite scenario here. The ported heads were capable of supporting over 700 hp, so we knew they would not be restrictive on our stroker. These issues can often be worked through by an advanced tuner, but always present a challenge and compromise in tuning strategy. Good cam for a lower rpm street engine. More than any other component, the cam profile determines things like idle quality, mileage, and overall driveability. 110 for sure. If you changed the lobe separation of a street engine from 112 degrees to 106 and didnt do anything else, adds Kaase. The 120-degree cam minimized torque production through most of the curve, while the 112-degree cam offered more torque but slightly less peak power. Selecting a camshaft for a given engines purpose usually involves a compromise between low- or high-end power options, and the lobe separation angle (LSA) is one of those factors where engine builders have to make a choice between those priorities. Is There a Sequence? General topics - 76 LA built, CA car with m20. camshaft is a Cranecams F238. The reduced rate of the EGR effect lowers oxygen circulation in the engines combustion chamber. also,, wider will produce a wider and more flat torque curve that doesn't fall off as abruptly up top rpms. Frontal lobe epilepsy (FLE), the second most common focal epilepsy syndrome after temporal lobe epilepsy (TLE), is frequently drug-resistant and MRI-negative. 110* LSA - lobe separation angle (lobe displacement angle) The +2* means your intake lobe centerline is advanced to obtain a 108* ICL - intake centerline and a 112* ECL - exhaust centerline. Pick the cam with the valve timing events that fit the engine best, forget about LSA, it is only a result of the events. JavaScript is disabled. Mike Magda is a veteran automotive writer with credits in publications such as Racecar Engineering, Hot Rod, Engine Technology International, Motor Trend, Automobile, Automotive Testing Technology and Professional Motorsport World. To illustrate the differences offered by changes in the LSA, we had Crane cams grind us three cam profiles that shared the same lift and duration figures, but differed only in the LSA. Lobe separation angles, he continues, are influenced by the camshaft grind. L'auteur prsente une nouvelle contribution de floristique nord-africaine consacre la flore du massif du Rif et des rgions du nord du Maroc, dans le cadre gographique prdfini par le Catalogue des Plantes vasculaires du Nord du Maroc de Valds et al. Simply put, the lobe center of the camshaft controls where the power curve is applied. A cam with a 112 lobe center will pull approximately 16-20" of vacuum, which is good for power brakes. On larger displacement units 116 to 118 degrees of separation are common. Thanks for the replies, particularly that link Marc, very informative. All testing was performed with an Aeromotive fuel pump feeding a set of 42-lb/hr injectors. I'm sorry to disagree with that incredibly well written article, but lobe separation by itself is absolutely freaking meaningless. A lower efficient compression rate leads to a higher fuel consumption rate by your engine to produce higher power. This recommendation is only if you shift at no more than 7000. 110 LSA: On the contrary, 110LSA has a higher piston-to-valve clearance rate. Also If you go with 112 lobe centers, you create less valve overlap which will increase your compretion. Hey guys, can anyone tell me how rough of a idle a cam would be with a 108 lobe separation? But to choose the perfect cam, all of that information needs understanding. I've seen that Webcam cams can be ordered with either of the above. Typically, narrower lobe separation develops peak torque at lower rpm and widening the separation tends to build peak torque higher in the rpm range. Ed JTO learn to park Joined May 31, 2009 180 Posts The engine has AFR heads, Crane rockers, a TCI balancer, a Scat Rotating assembly with Mahle pistons, an Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap intake, an MSD ignition, and an Aeromotive fuel system. Professionally ported & polished iron 4V head with titanium intake valves, stainless exhaust, titanium retainers & keepers & dual springs. 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That notion is completely false. We use 86b webcams with 1.25 rockers frequently in stroker motors.It's a nice way of getting close to .500" for hot street motors with average heads. . For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I don't know about 13 to one but I have seen 12 to one on a 350 chev in hot rod article, BUT the guy soft petals around on the street with no full throttle use and puts racing gas in at the track. Only once the intake valve has closed can compression begin to build. The absence of engine knocking ensures that your car engine is reasonably combusting the fuel. If it occurs too late, it will lean out the cylinder and greatly hinder the performance of the engine. Howards Cam Vs Comp Cam: Which Is The Best Option For You? LSA CAM TEST-108 vs 112 vs 120 Richard Holdener 239K subscribers 168K views 2 years ago WESTECH PERFORMANCE GROUP FULL RESULTS-CHANGE ONLY LSA-LS CAM TEST. The exhaust has an opening even and a closing event. . by mrsmythe Wed May 14, 2003 2:26 am, Post LSA helps determine the cam's behavior; you can take a given set of lift and duration figures, change the LSA, and get cams with vastly different characteristics. Come join the discussion about restoration, builds, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! So, now you, Read More Chevy Transmission Wont Shift Into 3rd: Finding the Main CulpritContinue, While changing the oil on your boats lower unit, you may need to change the drain plug, too. dont sound like a verry street friendly motor butany thoughts? Turbochargers are not as simple as they may sound; you may think of them only as power-boosting components. 110 degrees on the lobe separation angles. Another related thought to consider when selecting a cam is inches of vacuum for your engine application when deciding upon a Lobe Center. A cams Lobe center angle equals intake centerline plus exhaust . 13 The three power curves indicate that the wide (120-degree) LSA (green lines) lost considerable torque to the other two cams. Like choosing a cam in general, the key to eliminating separation anxiety is to find the proper balance of driveability and performance. Increasing the EGR effect has a good side in that it reduces the amount of oxygen in the combustion chamber. After swimming through the entire article, I hope you are now well aware of the 102 vs 110 lobe separation angle. However, finding them might be challenging if you dont have any prior knowledge. by Paul H Tue May 13, 2003 1:24 pm, Post If you drew a line that divided the intake lobe in half right at the point of maximum lift, then did the same to the exhaust lobe, then measured the distance in cam degrees between the two, that would be the lobe separation angle. 2.1.3 Transponder reply modes (air-to-ground) 2.1.3.1 Transponders shall respond to Mode A interrogations in accordance with the provisions of 3.1.1.7.12.1 and to Mode C interrogations in accordance . Ultimately, it makes the 110 LSA an oil-consuming LSA. To establish the position of each lobe, the traditional reference point is where the lobes reach max lift. The final cam was tighter still, with a 108-degree LSA. Part Number: HRS-CL120325-08. These numbers can vary a few inches one way or the other, depending on several other aftermarket factors and your individual engine specifications, so you may want to check your vacuum once the cam is installed. I just bought a 86b Webcam and Im using 1.5's. It idles very well at 650 rpm with a nice lope and runs strong. LSA is a result of valve timing events. Camshaft: Hydraulic Roller, Comp Cam custom grind (ADV Duration 281-287,@ .050 230-236, lift 622I & 625E w/1.6 rockers.) The result sounded wonderful, but it didnt rev as enthusiastically and it made 30 less horsepower than normal, says Lawrence. i've heard of this being done something about the massive amounts of duration allowes gasses to disipate?
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108 vs 110 lobe separation